December 2015 Silk Road

Log of AMA @ ark.io/slack with bitbay.market - @dzimbeck (David Zimbeck), @Munti (Bjørn Alsos)

dr10 Let us all welcome team from :bitbay: bitbay.market :bitbay: - @dzimbeck (David zimbeck ) and @Munti (Bjørn Alsos). You can all start asking them questions. I'd ask team from bitbay.market to use @ username to the one they are responding to and I'd like to ask all the community to give them some time to catch up if too many questions in backlog, before asking more so questions don't get lost. Thank you!
dzimbeck Hi
dr10 Hello
Munti Hi
dzimbeck Wow you guys have quite the slack. 7k people
dzimbeck very professional site too, always noticed that
dr10 haha, yeah grew a bit over time
dzimbeck Also a decent domain.
arigard @dzimbeck Man, I remember you from back in the day in Blackcoin
dzimbeck Haha yes that is where I started
dr10 okay guys, start with your questions :wink:
Munti Is there anyone helping us keep track of any questions we might miss because we are busy answering?
dzimbeck But I'm not the dev of Blackcoin
dzimbeck I only wrote Halo into it because I needed an alt
dr10 I have an eye on the chat and people notice when you didnt answer it, dont worry :smile:
dzimbeck and didn't want to start a pump thing
tranzer What is BitBay in few words. Are you anonymous marketplace? (edited)
dzimbeck Unbreakable contracts, Anonymous serverless markets and rolling peg
dzimbeck all of those features are extremely important for decentralization and computer science in general
dzimbeck "Unbreakable contracts" is the non-technical term for "Double deposit escrow"
dzimbeck It works by both parties placing a deposit in a joint account
dzimbeck and if they cheat each other they both lose their funds when the time limit expires
dzimbeck making the contract somewhat unbreakable
dzimbeck regardless of what is agreed to
btcmacroecon what if one cheats the other?
dzimbeck since it's a joint account
btcmacroecon hunt them down?
dzimbeck you need that person to sign off
dzimbeck so they lose money
dzimbeck they can't cheat you
dzimbeck example:
dzimbeck you want to buy a guitar
dzimbeck which costs 100 dollars
dzimbeck so you put up a deposit of 100 and also 100 into the joint account
dzimbeck the seller also puts up 100 to guarantee shipping and their own honesty
dzimbeck when the seller sends the guitar if you steal it
dzimbeck then seller won't sign off on the contract
dzimbeck causing both parties to lose money
dzimbeck (you just paid 200 for a 100 dollar it)
dzimbeck So this forces users to work together
dzimbeck better than E-bay with arbiters
dzimbeck in fact.. I am shocked this isn't the industry standard
tranzer Are there any limits on how much can someone sell or buy item for?
dzimbeck I've been doing this for 4 years since BitHalo started
Munti When you use double deposit escrow, your protection is based upon the fact that no one can gain anything by breaking the deal. That pretty much eliminates scammers as there is no incentive for them.
btcmacroecon what if the seller "says" the other stole the guitar, when in reality it was received, it's jus seller wont sign off on it to be a dick
dzimbeck No limits
dzimbeck and deposits are negotiable (edited)
donze Nice idea
ulyssessyoungo interesting
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Because the seller will lose money if he does
Munti I actually just bought a property in our marketplace. Got the paperwork in the mail today
donze Your market is active?
dzimbeck Being a dick doesn't profit a dime
donze Or work in progress
dzimbeck It actually costs money to be a dick
dzimbeck which is what we WANT
arigard @dzimbeck is that similar to the two way mad escrow Particl are working on?
ulyssessyoungo I like the sound of that
dzimbeck we want jerks to be broke
dzimbeck we want politicians to be the ones begging for food on the street
ulyssessyoungo do you have any system beyond that
Munti Our marketplace has been operational since early 2015
ulyssessyoungo to see if people honor the contracts?
ulyssessyoungo like user history or something
dzimbeck Oh there is tons of systems in BitBay
little_round Particl took it from bitbay
dzimbeck we actually have a wall of features
ulyssessyoungo I mean like
ulyssessyoungo say a guy has a history of blowing up contracts
dzimbeck http://bitbay.market/wall
ulyssessyoungo are those people easily identified as bad business?
tranzer Do you have numbers of how many people "were dicks" and how much was already agreed upon in your marketplace (like yearly turnaround)?
dzimbeck Yes
dzimbeck You can see how many contracts their profile has blown up
dzimbeck so you can mathematically calculate what their deposit should be!
dzimbeck It's like the perfect escrow for p2p transactions
ulyssessyoungo that's nice
Munti Actually particl (then shadowcoin) tried to hire David to make the marketplace for them many years ago. When he declined, they tried to revers enginer his code. They failed :slightly_smiling_face:
ulyssessyoungo So like a reputation system?
ulyssessyoungo I always check vendor reputations on alibaba, amazon etc.
arigard @Munti really? Interesting..
dzimbeck And it's been working for 3+ years it was actually the worlds first smart contracts
dzimbeck Yep
btcmacroecon is there a scenario when a seller would lose money if it harmed the buyer, even if seller loses money, adversely affecting the buyer, even if guitar received, to cause buyer to lose money? Or woul buyer come out ahead cause of guitar, or would that mean net loss for buyer in this scenario, despite "seller wouldn't do it cause he loses money assumption"
dzimbeck we have a reputation system
dzimbeck Yes you are right
dzimbeck but consider this @btcmacroecon
shtand Does the seller always match 100% of the value of what they're selling?
dzimbeck The seller does cause buyer to lose
dzimbeck but now they have proof they are blowing up contracts
dzimbeck who would want to work with that seller later?
dzimbeck Also that seller would be asked in future deals for a LARGER deposit
btcmacroecon ok and ebay has good marketplace for reputation.
dzimbeck meaning being a jerk is progressive;y cost inhibitive
dzimbeck And this reputation system there is no way to lie about it
Munti @dzimbeck I just noticed we both forget to use @ to make it clear who we are answering
dzimbeck because there is cryptographic proof you blew up the funds
btcmacroecon ok good to wait for established track record
dzimbeck I will use the @ more thanks
dzimbeck @shtand Not always
ulyssessyoungo eBay is good with the reputation system but not so much the arbitration
ulyssessyoungo so that makes me interested in alternatives
dzimbeck matching 1:1 is a great way to deal with strangers you don't trust
dzimbeck But a great seller might only put up 10%
ulyssessyoungo i've been screwed selling some high ticket items on ebay before, not terribly so but enough to make me wonder what the point of a middleman is if they just side with the buyer in most cases
dzimbeck exactly!!
donze safex will be full anonymous and will give dividends to those who own it, what are the advantages of bitbay other than being ahead in the roadmap?
dzimbeck But guys this isn't just buying and selling
dzimbeck who here has outsourced?
btcmacroecon What about where damage or not represented product as advertised? same thing? comes down to reputation scores?
dzimbeck @donze that would be the rolling peg we will get to that
arigard Does Bitbay have any anon functionality?
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Realize a seller loses funds for damaged items if blown up. He will be much more motivated to work with buyer than he would be in e-bay
dzimbeck BitBays markets are anon
Munti @ donze If safex is able to pay dividends, they will need to take that money from somewhere. Fees? We have no fees (edited)
dzimbeck because they use Bitmessage
dzimbeck and we don't bloat the blockchain
dzimbeck because Bitmessage is p2p
dzimbeck and no chain is used
shtand what's determining who a 'great seller' is and what % they need to match then?
dzimbeck thus no servers
kimchi ...where does bitbay profit come from?
tranzer How is BitBay team being funded?
dzimbeck sender is hidden because messages are passed around making it hard to find the origin
dzimbeck decoding messages is plausible deniability because nobody knows if you have decryption key
dzimbeck (a market is a shared key)
dzimbeck @shtand A great seller would be someone with tons of contracts that didn't blow up
RQDxRocket joined #trading_altcoins.
arigard What about transactions, are they hidden too?
Munti @kimchi BitBay in itself does not need profit. The holders of the coin will get their profit from higher value because we gain adoption. and we are years ahead in this race, so should have a decent chance to increase price a lot
dzimbeck @kimchi I don't profit much from BitBay. We are mostly self funded
moon joined #trading_altcoins.
ulyssessyoungo Yeah it's not a centralized service so i don't see why it would need "profit" given that it's just a network
btcmacroecon does bitbay have any interest in their service being used with other projects to form a marketplace? any room for collaboration if buyers / sellers can be rounded up for establishing marketplace, reputation, including commodity trading?
ulyssessyoungo BAY is POS right?
tranzer Is BitBay POS or mineable or what consensus algo does it use?
dzimbeck @arigard Transactions aren't anon
dzimbeck but I'm a big ffan of zero knowledge proofs
dzimbeck There is ways to hide the person broadcasting using Bitmessage
dzimbeck but I haven't implemented
dzimbeck I'm a purist so if an anon route is chosen later then it will be on a very high level
arigard Will you be looking to do those kinds of things in the future? Maybe something like Zerocoin etc?
dzimbeck @tranzer POS
kimchi When can I see the beta version?
Munti @kimchi Also, Double deposit escrow ties up a lot of money, so when marketplace becomes really active , that will have tremendous impact on coin supply (reduced supply because of DDE). An average daily turnover on our marketplace of 1k dollars can create demand for as much as 30k-50k dollars worth of Bay (edited)
dzimbeck Maybe a side chain arigard
dzimbeck Since the main chain doesn't need to be anon
dzimbeck also anon would interfere with the rolling peg
dzimbeck Jesus zero proof:heart_eyes:
dzimbeck depending on what i choose for it
donze What is actual year trade volume of bitbay?
Munti @btcmacroecon BitBay is open for working with partners
dzimbeck @ulyssessyoungo yeah profit from escrow is not wise since it eliminates the middle man, we would not want the liability
dzimbeck also I meant to say earlier
dzimbeck these contracts work with employees too
dzimbeck so an employee is forced to honor his/her word
dzimbeck and employer is forced to pay
dzimbeck so no more unreliable outsourcers
Munti @donze Trade volume varies a lot like it does for most coins
dzimbeck It's been over a million a lot
btcmacroecon what do you think about creating a trading floor for commodities, or whatever "product" or "service" say "electronics" or "beer" or "metals"
dzimbeck but then it goes down to 50-500k
dzimbeck We don't fake our volume
dzimbeck :smile:
dzimbeck that is why, this is a very organic project
dzimbeck You see I used to be BitHalo
dzimbeck which was years before Ethereum
dzimbeck and was hired on to the BitBay project, the people who hired me disappeared
dzimbeck so the community and myself took it over
dzimbeck making it pretty organic
ulyssessyoungo I have been in your Slack for some time, i can vouch that you guys seem to be one of the more transparent teams.
Munti @btcmacroecon We already kind of have a trading floor for commodities. We have a fully working marketplace. In one of the comming updates we will also add templates for auctions.
dzimbeck BitHalo is still active but it's worth pointing out that all new templates and features will be withheld from BitHalo to give BitBay maximum impact
Bitbay1 uploaded this image: m2.jpg 1 Comment
btcmacroecon i like the concept and not of ebay as a seller given their fees, or as a buyer with paypal.
ulyssessyoungo lol those boots
dzimbeck Ebays biggest problem is scam buyers
dzimbeck no way to stop it
dzimbeck In our platform that is not going to happen
dzimbeck And let me stress something else
dzimbeck This is Bitcoin
dzimbeck which is anonymous
dzimbeck so scams are more prevalent
dzimbeck which is why it shocks me
dzimbeck that this isn't the industry standard for escrow
btcmacroecon but the man is wise
dzimbeck Plus we don't have to deal with arbiters
dzimbeck the analogy is you go to court... would you trust 12 peers and a judge to decide your fate?
dzimbeck I wouldn't
dzimbeck A witness where it's your word against theirs
dzimbeck This is a better system. There is no judge
dzimbeck just perp and victim
btcmacroecon i havent been to court once where the truth was spoken
dzimbeck empowering victims a little bit more
dzimbeck "instant karma"
dzimbeck That is exactly why I made this
btcmacroecon i had proof attorney was lying but judge refused to let me play it as i ha proo
dzimbeck Oh jesus
dzimbeck that sucks
btcmacroecon i was going to hit play in courtroom but she freaked out on the bench said i would not play it in her courtroom!
V01D Would there be any backlash against the name bitbay in the future if a company like eBay felt threatened?
dzimbeck Yeah also realize that losing a deposit makes a victim feel like the person who screwed them paid for it
btcmacroecon protected the liar
dzimbeck I don't think so but we can always rebrand
dzimbeck there is an exchange called BitBay too
dzimbeck timing was almost the same as ours
btcmacroecon 591 price on bay on bittrex
dzimbeck we had an international presence first
dzimbeck As for price
Munti @VO1D I don't see how ebay could do something about that. But then I'm not a lawyer
dzimbeck This IS a trading channel
V01D I see, thank you
dzimbeck we should talk about the rolling peg
btcmacroecon i sold all bay at 860
dzimbeck So when the project started I wasn't the founder
btcmacroecon pissed i could have got 870
dzimbeck so I knew there had to be a way to protect investors in case something bad happened
Munti LOL
dzimbeck So the rolling peg was designed
dzimbeck similar to an economic crawling peg
dzimbeck The way it works is this: we can control the supply of the coin by simply freezing it
dzimbeck so as most coins only inflate
dzimbeck this coin does both
dzimbeck it inflates and deflates
yin :open_mouth:
dzimbeck but it only freezes the coins temporarily to stop dumps on the market
dzimbeck and it does so exactly fairly
codnose It's been a bad 24 hours for lots of alts. It will bounce back @btcmacroecon ;)
dzimbeck coins have memory in this system so each coin knows it's own liquidity
funkedelics proof to back up your claim? Munti Actually particl (then shadowcoin) tried to hire David to make the marketplace for them many years ago. When he declined, they tried to revers enginer his code. They failed :slightly_smiling_face: Posted in #trading_altcoinsToday at 7:09 PM
dzimbeck reddit
btcmacroecon yah i hope to reposition on this coin as we speak
codnose Good few days for bay recently. I'm holding since a while back
dzimbeck there is proof where I fought with veritasBS from ShadowCash
dzimbeck They tried to reverse my code
Bitbay1 Freezing via decentralized voting?
dzimbeck it was famous
funkedelics link?
Munti @funkedelics On reddit as David said. I'm sure we can find a link for you after this session is over
dzimbeck Someone else can find it
dzimbeck @funkedelics
dzimbeck It is on the blackcoin subreddit
btcmacroecon what are you doing to avoid illegal activity, kyc, and silk road activity?
dzimbeck if you wanna look
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon I have a mod key which users subscribe to
dzimbeck which is handed out
dzimbeck so decentralized mod i guess
dzimbeck also users encrypt their IP within their orders
dzimbeck so if for some reason a swat team shows up at my house I just tell them they are free to use it
kimchi What is the return or refund?..
dzimbeck In theory we shouldn't need to deal with silk road type problems
btcmacroecon id say get a fkn warrant, shut the door
dzimbeck since we don't host anything
dzimbeck That too
codnose Rolling peg sounds very interesting. Is there a link here?
dzimbeck But we don't live in a fair world @btcmacroecon
dzimbeck USA arrested a guy in Greece who was a Russian citizen
dzimbeck nonsense
btcmacroecon and those that vote i big corrupt government blame trump
dzimbeck https://bitbay.market/about/pegging/ BitBay Rolling Peg - BitBay Price volatility is cryptocurrency's biggest challenge - BitBay's rolling peg will reduce volatility by dynamically controlling supply. Learn more here.
dzimbeck Never blame Trump
dzimbeck blame military intelligence
dzimbeck and compartmentalization
Munti @codnose our site is going through a little redesign atm, but the info on the rolling peg will be back up soon
btcmacroecon new vorld odor! I blame "globalism"
imyb commented on Bitbay1’s file m2.jpg Is this really what it's going to look like?
dzimbeck :smile:
codnose Great thanks @Munti
Munti LOL, it was back up (edited)
dzimbeck well whatever powerful people do
dzimbeck it's our job to come up with solutions like unbreakable contracts
dzimbeck these contracts work in an anarchy
dzimbeck literally
dzimbeck The rolling peg is meant to allow low cap coins
dzimbeck to thrive
little_round @imyb No, it will be changed
dzimbeck because the control of supply lets us force the price
dzimbeck by voting on supply
yin damn your product sounds awesome! but you need a redesign of your website :smile:
dzimbeck so example
btcmacroecon so you in essence have a dashboard already active.
dzimbeck if a user has 1000 coins at 100% at .10 cents per coin
WeeMan Mike joined #trading_altcoins.
dzimbeck and the network deflates to 50%
dzimbeck he would have 500 coins liquid and 500 frozen
Munti @btcmacroecon What do you mean by dashboard?
dzimbeck he can move the liquid coins as much as he wants
btcmacroecon you have a marketplace or dashboard like ebay has basically?
dzimbeck the frozen coins he can move but with a penalty a one month delay
Munti @btcmacroecon Yes (edited)
dzimbeck which makes a secondary market for trading frozen coins
codnose Like the eBay dashboard right @btcmacroecon ?
dzimbeck at a more speculative value
btcmacroecon you just need to expand on it with volume
Bitbay1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hEpu8gZMzEcP22rMYX0Iw/videos YouTube BitBay Official BitBay youtube channel
dzimbeck we can assume his liquid coins would be worth about double than before if demand is about the same
btcmacroecon do you offer any affiliate programs to market for that volume?
dzimbeck Good idea
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Working on that now
dzimbeck We have just started discussions about incentives
dzimbeck @kimchi please elaborate
dzimbeck return or refund on what?
kimchi I bought shoes. But what if a brick comes? There is an image on top that sells shoes.
dzimbeck Then seller would pay 100 dollars
dzimbeck if you blow it up
dzimbeck so negotiate a refund
dzimbeck the seller will most definitely reconsider
dzimbeck since he doesn't want to pay 100 dollars to be a joker
dzimbeck You can cancel contracts
dzimbeck returning all funds
Anoeng joined #trading_altcoins.
dzimbeck upon mutual consent
dzimbeck everything is consent
btcmacroecon does bitbay have the ability to accept payment in a variety of cryptocurrency? I think that's where volume could come in, or a gateway to exchange tokens and buyer / seller can arrive at payment and yet can be worked via bitbay smart contract or escrowing? could that work, is it possible, if not care to explore it?
dzimbeck the way a contract should be
dzimbeck Yes
codnose Ha that's awesome actually. Why would a seller send anything else knowing they'd lose their deposit ?
dzimbeck You can use Ark to pay
dzimbeck Bay is only used as a deposit
dzimbeck you might have to specify the coins you would accept in your contract
ulyssessyoungo nice
ulyssessyoungo i like that
btcmacroecon and what about dogecoin for example?
codnose Yeah that's cool
ulyssessyoungo Definitely adds to the viability of the platform
codnose Whatcoin? Lol
dzimbeck yeah codnose it forces honesty
dzimbeck and the same for employees
Munti @btcmacroecon Also, our platform is very broad. You can use it for almost anything. We already had all kinds of things sold there from pins to property. Many coins have also been sold there. Our market is like an improved localbitcoin. Binary opptions is also you can find on our marketoplace regularly. And I'm sure we havent even scrathced the surface yet. In the future we will have API's so ppl can tailor their own version of our marketplace.
dzimbeck if I hire someone using this system
btcmacroecon ok deposit only, making more sense now
ulyssessyoungo BAY as a currency would certainly take off best after the Rolling Peg
dzimbeck they better do what they say
ulyssessyoungo but in the meantime that's awesome that you can use other coins
dzimbeck I actually used to it motivate myself
Bitbay1 Why not sell Ark for Bay on the market :slightly_smiling_face:
Bitbay1 or Btc
dzimbeck had my friend blow up my money if I didn't do my daily errands
dzimbeck imagine having 10 grand deterrent
dzimbeck :smile:
bivins Greetings
dzimbeck You can trade coins on the market
dzimbeck especially microtrade
codnose You bought some land using this you said @Munti ?
dzimbeck but it is slow
dzimbeck for that I recommend atomic trade
dzimbeck It's not that fast paced trading that traders demand...
dzimbeck but
codnose No worries about losing any money ? I take it it wasn't just a few dollars
dzimbeck Someone did sell IOTA on our platform
dzimbeck and did lots of deals
Bitbay1 yes before IOTA came into the exchanges
Munti @codnose Yes I did. Got the paperwork in the mail today. 5 acres of land in California. (And I live in Norway) (edited)
prasanth can we stake coins in the market client??
Munti Yes
dzimbeck Staking is done using 2 keys
dzimbeck so you can actually stake over LAN too
tranzer Could BitBay somehow bridge with Ark and offer their services to Ark users?
dzimbeck using 2 computers
dzimbeck it's called "cold staking"
dzimbeck no hacking is possible here
dzimbeck ever
dzimbeck you can hide keys in images
btcmacroecon ok i admit failure on setting up CoinURL as I tried to set up online store, to sell some code, my wildlife photography, and rocks and gems I prospect, I'd like to set up BitBay on an Iframe into my site, and capture affiliate biz. Sounds like this is almost possible, and I could sell my jade right through my site, at least offer it up, right?
dzimbeck and have dual passwords and use 2 computers to sign transactions automated
Munti @tranzer We would have to look into that. But I don't see any reason why we could not.
dzimbeck We need a web wallet
dzimbeck that is our biggest challenge
dzimbeck since I made this with a "security first" attitude
dzimbeck being a cryptographer (edited)
dzimbeck I forgot the reason to make everything web based
Munti @btcmacroecon We are not quite there yet, but yes, that's where we're going
dzimbeck Didn't want to sacrifice security
dzimbeck now I realize there is a need for web based platforms
codnose I follow you on twitter and saw that mentioned the other day. It's coming soon? @dzimbeck
dzimbeck that sacrifice a little security for speed and ease of use in phones
dzimbeck A web wallet?
codnose Yeah
dzimbeck Yeah well we will have a basic web wallet very soon
dzimbeck its actually a very nice one (edited)
dzimbeck But I was referring to a market wallet
dzimbeck one with the full contract implementation
dzimbeck we hope to do that after the peg is successful
Munti Keep an eye on our next weekly update (sunday) for roadmap for the rest of this year. You will get details there
dzimbeck since it's more important to deliver on what I promise
dzimbeck than to make up new features
dzimbeck aka "scope creep" a programmers worst enemy
mergatroid Hello
dzimbeck Hi
mergatroid Please comment on recent news around SEC delistings on bittrex - what steps are you taking to communicate with user base as to whether your a security and what you plan to do if you are classified as such
dzimbeck The rolling peg is the priority
dzimbeck Since Tether is unreliable
dzimbeck this is a decentralized peg
dzimbeck that isn't fixed at a certain price
dzimbeck so it can "roll" the price up
codnose Sounds like you have a lot of nice things planned :)
dzimbeck so it starts at say 5 cents
dzimbeck and slowly rolls up to 10 cents
dzimbeck over X amount of time
dzimbeck after that we would love to focus on web implementations
dzimbeck however anyone who wants to plug this into their site should contact us, we can set up some API calls for sure
Munti @mergatroid I just became aware of the SEC issue on Bittrex today, and have not had time to study it. But going by the little I did read, it doesn't seem to be a problem for us.
mergatroid Ok - so no plan so far understand
dzimbeck we aren't a security
dzimbeck because we don't pay dividends
mergatroid Thankyou
codnose Just on your website now @dzimbeck @Munti
dr10 OK we are approaching 1 hour mark. If you guys have any questions left, go ahead. Anything bitbay.market team would like to add or tell - feel free to do.
V01D Thanks for your time bitbay team
dzimbeck Thanks for doing this! It was fun. And maybe I have a few questions about Ark later
dzimbeck :slightly_smiling_face:
codnose Looking good. Thanks for stopping by :)
dzimbeck Any other questions?
dzimbeck Perhaps regarding the peg, contracts or markets?
Boris Is dzimbeck a god?
dzimbeck :smile:
dzimbeck no
dzimbeck I bleed
codnose Haha I'd heard that too
codnose At least in coding terms lol
dr10 Thank you David and Bjørn for taking the time to do this AMA! All the best with the project and you are always welcome to hang around our Slack
Munti If anyone wants more info, you are welcome to our slack http://bitbay.market/wp-login.php?action=slack-invitation
dzimbeck Honestly a little bit of effort is all these things take
dzimbeck Thanks dr10
Munti Thanks for having us. This was fun
submitted by Dr10tv to BitBay [link] [comments]

Vendor HollandOnline Busted + What he did wrong

Bust #6: HollandOnline
So, where did HollandOnline go wrong?
*Bitcoins seized -> bad opsec setup
Sources: https://www.deepdotweb.com/2015/03/12/dutch-vendor-bust-hollandonline/
https://web.archive.org/web/20160325231658/https://www.om.nl/actueel/nieuwsberichten/@88570/aanhoudingen/ [google translator not working for the URL, copy the text manually and paste it into the google translator]
submitted by ThePharmaInitiative to DNMBusts [link] [comments]

Log of AMA with bitbay.market - @dzimbeck (David Zimbeck), @Munti (Bjørn Alsos)

dr10 Let us all welcome team from :bitbay: bitbay.market :bitbay: - @dzimbeck (David zimbeck ) and @Munti (Bjørn Alsos). You can all start asking them questions. I'd ask team from bitbay.market to use @ username to the one they are responding to and I'd like to ask all the community to give them some time to catch up if too many questions in backlog, before asking more so questions don't get lost. Thank you!
dzimbeck Hi
dr10 Hello
Munti Hi
dzimbeck Wow you guys have quite the slack. 7k people
dzimbeck very professional site too, always noticed that
dr10 haha, yeah grew a bit over time
dzimbeck Also a decent domain.
arigard @dzimbeck Man, I remember you from back in the day in Blackcoin
dzimbeck Haha yes that is where I started
dr10 okay guys, start with your questions :wink:
Munti Is there anyone helping us keep track of any questions we might miss because we are busy answering?
dzimbeck But I'm not the dev of Blackcoin
dzimbeck I only wrote Halo into it because I needed an alt
dr10 I have an eye on the chat and people notice when you didnt answer it, dont worry :smile:
dzimbeck and didn't want to start a pump thing
tranzer What is BitBay in few words. Are you anonymous marketplace? (edited)
dzimbeck Unbreakable contracts, Anonymous serverless markets and rolling peg
dzimbeck all of those features are extremely important for decentralization and computer science in general
dzimbeck "Unbreakable contracts" is the non-technical term for "Double deposit escrow"
dzimbeck It works by both parties placing a deposit in a joint account
dzimbeck and if they cheat each other they both lose their funds when the time limit expires
dzimbeck making the contract somewhat unbreakable
dzimbeck regardless of what is agreed to
btcmacroecon what if one cheats the other?
dzimbeck since it's a joint account
btcmacroecon hunt them down?
dzimbeck you need that person to sign off
dzimbeck so they lose money
dzimbeck they can't cheat you
dzimbeck example:
dzimbeck you want to buy a guitar
dzimbeck which costs 100 dollars
dzimbeck so you put up a deposit of 100 and also 100 into the joint account
dzimbeck the seller also puts up 100 to guarantee shipping and their own honesty
dzimbeck when the seller sends the guitar if you steal it
dzimbeck then seller won't sign off on the contract
dzimbeck causing both parties to lose money
dzimbeck (you just paid 200 for a 100 dollar it)
dzimbeck So this forces users to work together
dzimbeck better than E-bay with arbiters
dzimbeck in fact.. I am shocked this isn't the industry standard
tranzer Are there any limits on how much can someone sell or buy item for?
dzimbeck I've been doing this for 4 years since BitHalo started
Munti When you use double deposit escrow, your protection is based upon the fact that no one can gain anything by breaking the deal. That pretty much eliminates scammers as there is no incentive for them.
btcmacroecon what if the seller "says" the other stole the guitar, when in reality it was received, it's jus seller wont sign off on it to be a dick
dzimbeck No limits
dzimbeck and deposits are negotiable (edited)
donze Nice idea
ulyssessyoungo interesting
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Because the seller will lose money if he does
Munti I actually just bought a property in our marketplace. Got the paperwork in the mail today
donze Your market is active?
dzimbeck Being a dick doesn't profit a dime
donze Or work in progress
dzimbeck It actually costs money to be a dick
dzimbeck which is what we WANT
arigard @dzimbeck is that similar to the two way mad escrow Particl are working on?
ulyssessyoungo I like the sound of that
dzimbeck we want jerks to be broke
dzimbeck we want politicians to be the ones begging for food on the street
ulyssessyoungo do you have any system beyond that
Munti Our marketplace has been operational since early 2015
ulyssessyoungo to see if people honor the contracts?
ulyssessyoungo like user history or something
dzimbeck Oh there is tons of systems in BitBay
little_round Particl took it from bitbay
dzimbeck we actually have a wall of features
ulyssessyoungo I mean like
ulyssessyoungo say a guy has a history of blowing up contracts
dzimbeck http://bitbay.market/wall
ulyssessyoungo are those people easily identified as bad business?
tranzer Do you have numbers of how many people "were dicks" and how much was already agreed upon in your marketplace (like yearly turnaround)?
dzimbeck Yes
dzimbeck You can see how many contracts their profile has blown up
dzimbeck so you can mathematically calculate what their deposit should be!
dzimbeck It's like the perfect escrow for p2p transactions
ulyssessyoungo that's nice
Munti Actually particl (then shadowcoin) tried to hire David to make the marketplace for them many years ago. When he declined, they tried to revers enginer his code. They failed :slightly_smiling_face:
ulyssessyoungo So like a reputation system?
ulyssessyoungo I always check vendor reputations on alibaba, amazon etc.
arigard @Munti really? Interesting..
dzimbeck And it's been working for 3+ years it was actually the worlds first smart contracts
dzimbeck Yep
btcmacroecon is there a scenario when a seller would lose money if it harmed the buyer, even if seller loses money, adversely affecting the buyer, even if guitar received, to cause buyer to lose money? Or woul buyer come out ahead cause of guitar, or would that mean net loss for buyer in this scenario, despite "seller wouldn't do it cause he loses money assumption"
dzimbeck we have a reputation system
dzimbeck Yes you are right
dzimbeck but consider this @btcmacroecon
shtand Does the seller always match 100% of the value of what they're selling?
dzimbeck The seller does cause buyer to lose
dzimbeck but now they have proof they are blowing up contracts
dzimbeck who would want to work with that seller later?
dzimbeck Also that seller would be asked in future deals for a LARGER deposit
btcmacroecon ok and ebay has good marketplace for reputation.
dzimbeck meaning being a jerk is progressive;y cost inhibitive
dzimbeck And this reputation system there is no way to lie about it
Munti @dzimbeck I just noticed we both forget to use @ to make it clear who we are answering
dzimbeck because there is cryptographic proof you blew up the funds
btcmacroecon ok good to wait for established track record
dzimbeck I will use the @ more thanks
dzimbeck @shtand Not always
ulyssessyoungo eBay is good with the reputation system but not so much the arbitration
ulyssessyoungo so that makes me interested in alternatives
dzimbeck matching 1:1 is a great way to deal with strangers you don't trust
dzimbeck But a great seller might only put up 10%
ulyssessyoungo i've been screwed selling some high ticket items on ebay before, not terribly so but enough to make me wonder what the point of a middleman is if they just side with the buyer in most cases
dzimbeck exactly!!
donze safex will be full anonymous and will give dividends to those who own it, what are the advantages of bitbay other than being ahead in the roadmap?
dzimbeck But guys this isn't just buying and selling
dzimbeck who here has outsourced?
btcmacroecon What about where damage or not represented product as advertised? same thing? comes down to reputation scores?
dzimbeck @donze that would be the rolling peg we will get to that
arigard Does Bitbay have any anon functionality?
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Realize a seller loses funds for damaged items if blown up. He will be much more motivated to work with buyer than he would be in e-bay
dzimbeck BitBays markets are anon
Munti @ donze If safex is able to pay dividends, they will need to take that money from somewhere. Fees? We have no fees (edited)
dzimbeck because they use Bitmessage
dzimbeck and we don't bloat the blockchain
dzimbeck because Bitmessage is p2p
dzimbeck and no chain is used
shtand what's determining who a 'great seller' is and what % they need to match then?
dzimbeck thus no servers
kimchi ...where does bitbay profit come from?
tranzer How is BitBay team being funded?
dzimbeck sender is hidden because messages are passed around making it hard to find the origin
dzimbeck decoding messages is plausible deniability because nobody knows if you have decryption key
dzimbeck (a market is a shared key)
dzimbeck @shtand A great seller would be someone with tons of contracts that didn't blow up
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arigard What about transactions, are they hidden too?
Munti @kimchi BitBay in itself does not need profit. The holders of the coin will get their profit from higher value because we gain adoption. and we are years ahead in this race, so should have a decent chance to increase price a lot
dzimbeck @kimchi I don't profit much from BitBay. We are mostly self funded
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ulyssessyoungo Yeah it's not a centralized service so i don't see why it would need "profit" given that it's just a network
btcmacroecon does bitbay have any interest in their service being used with other projects to form a marketplace? any room for collaboration if buyers / sellers can be rounded up for establishing marketplace, reputation, including commodity trading?
ulyssessyoungo BAY is POS right?
tranzer Is BitBay POS or mineable or what consensus algo does it use?
dzimbeck @arigard Transactions aren't anon
dzimbeck but I'm a big ffan of zero knowledge proofs
dzimbeck There is ways to hide the person broadcasting using Bitmessage
dzimbeck but I haven't implemented
dzimbeck I'm a purist so if an anon route is chosen later then it will be on a very high level
arigard Will you be looking to do those kinds of things in the future? Maybe something like Zerocoin etc?
dzimbeck @tranzer POS
kimchi When can I see the beta version?
Munti @kimchi Also, Double deposit escrow ties up a lot of money, so when marketplace becomes really active , that will have tremendous impact on coin supply (reduced supply because of DDE). An average daily turnover on our marketplace of 1k dollars can create demand for as much as 30k-50k dollars worth of Bay (edited)
dzimbeck Maybe a side chain arigard
dzimbeck Since the main chain doesn't need to be anon
dzimbeck also anon would interfere with the rolling peg
dzimbeck Jesus zero proof:heart_eyes:
dzimbeck depending on what i choose for it
donze What is actual year trade volume of bitbay?
Munti @btcmacroecon BitBay is open for working with partners
dzimbeck @ulyssessyoungo yeah profit from escrow is not wise since it eliminates the middle man, we would not want the liability
dzimbeck also I meant to say earlier
dzimbeck these contracts work with employees too
dzimbeck so an employee is forced to honor his/her word
dzimbeck and employer is forced to pay
dzimbeck so no more unreliable outsourcers
Munti @donze Trade volume varies a lot like it does for most coins
dzimbeck It's been over a million a lot
btcmacroecon what do you think about creating a trading floor for commodities, or whatever "product" or "service" say "electronics" or "beer" or "metals"
dzimbeck but then it goes down to 50-500k
dzimbeck We don't fake our volume
dzimbeck :smile:
dzimbeck that is why, this is a very organic project
dzimbeck You see I used to be BitHalo
dzimbeck which was years before Ethereum
dzimbeck and was hired on to the BitBay project, the people who hired me disappeared
dzimbeck so the community and myself took it over
dzimbeck making it pretty organic
ulyssessyoungo I have been in your Slack for some time, i can vouch that you guys seem to be one of the more transparent teams.
Munti @btcmacroecon We already kind of have a trading floor for commodities. We have a fully working marketplace. In one of the comming updates we will also add templates for auctions.
dzimbeck BitHalo is still active but it's worth pointing out that all new templates and features will be withheld from BitHalo to give BitBay maximum impact
Bitbay1 uploaded this image: m2.jpg 1 Comment
btcmacroecon i like the concept and not of ebay as a seller given their fees, or as a buyer with paypal.
ulyssessyoungo lol those boots
dzimbeck Ebays biggest problem is scam buyers
dzimbeck no way to stop it
dzimbeck In our platform that is not going to happen
dzimbeck And let me stress something else
dzimbeck This is Bitcoin
dzimbeck which is anonymous
dzimbeck so scams are more prevalent
dzimbeck which is why it shocks me
dzimbeck that this isn't the industry standard for escrow
btcmacroecon but the man is wise
dzimbeck Plus we don't have to deal with arbiters
dzimbeck the analogy is you go to court... would you trust 12 peers and a judge to decide your fate?
dzimbeck I wouldn't
dzimbeck A witness where it's your word against theirs
dzimbeck This is a better system. There is no judge
dzimbeck just perp and victim
btcmacroecon i havent been to court once where the truth was spoken
dzimbeck empowering victims a little bit more
dzimbeck "instant karma"
dzimbeck That is exactly why I made this
btcmacroecon i had proof attorney was lying but judge refused to let me play it as i ha proo
dzimbeck Oh jesus
dzimbeck that sucks
btcmacroecon i was going to hit play in courtroom but she freaked out on the bench said i would not play it in her courtroom!
V01D Would there be any backlash against the name bitbay in the future if a company like eBay felt threatened?
dzimbeck Yeah also realize that losing a deposit makes a victim feel like the person who screwed them paid for it
btcmacroecon protected the liar
dzimbeck I don't think so but we can always rebrand
dzimbeck there is an exchange called BitBay too
dzimbeck timing was almost the same as ours
btcmacroecon 591 price on bay on bittrex
dzimbeck we had an international presence first
dzimbeck As for price
Munti @VO1D I don't see how ebay could do something about that. But then I'm not a lawyer
dzimbeck This IS a trading channel
V01D I see, thank you
dzimbeck we should talk about the rolling peg
btcmacroecon i sold all bay at 860
dzimbeck So when the project started I wasn't the founder
btcmacroecon pissed i could have got 870
dzimbeck so I knew there had to be a way to protect investors in case something bad happened
Munti LOL
dzimbeck So the rolling peg was designed
dzimbeck similar to an economic crawling peg
dzimbeck The way it works is this: we can control the supply of the coin by simply freezing it
dzimbeck so as most coins only inflate
dzimbeck this coin does both
dzimbeck it inflates and deflates
yin :open_mouth:
dzimbeck but it only freezes the coins temporarily to stop dumps on the market
dzimbeck and it does so exactly fairly
codnose It's been a bad 24 hours for lots of alts. It will bounce back @btcmacroecon ;)
dzimbeck coins have memory in this system so each coin knows it's own liquidity
funkedelics proof to back up your claim? Munti Actually particl (then shadowcoin) tried to hire David to make the marketplace for them many years ago. When he declined, they tried to revers enginer his code. They failed :slightly_smiling_face: Posted in #trading_altcoinsToday at 7:09 PM
dzimbeck reddit
btcmacroecon yah i hope to reposition on this coin as we speak
codnose Good few days for bay recently. I'm holding since a while back
dzimbeck there is proof where I fought with veritasBS from ShadowCash
dzimbeck They tried to reverse my code
Bitbay1 Freezing via decentralized voting?
dzimbeck it was famous
funkedelics link?
Munti @funkedelics On reddit as David said. I'm sure we can find a link for you after this session is over
dzimbeck Someone else can find it
dzimbeck @funkedelics
dzimbeck It is on the blackcoin subreddit
btcmacroecon what are you doing to avoid illegal activity, kyc, and silk road activity?
dzimbeck if you wanna look
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon I have a mod key which users subscribe to
dzimbeck which is handed out
dzimbeck so decentralized mod i guess
dzimbeck also users encrypt their IP within their orders
dzimbeck so if for some reason a swat team shows up at my house I just tell them they are free to use it
kimchi What is the return or refund?..
dzimbeck In theory we shouldn't need to deal with silk road type problems
btcmacroecon id say get a fkn warrant, shut the door
dzimbeck since we don't host anything
dzimbeck That too
codnose Rolling peg sounds very interesting. Is there a link here?
dzimbeck But we don't live in a fair world @btcmacroecon
dzimbeck USA arrested a guy in Greece who was a Russian citizen
dzimbeck nonsense
btcmacroecon and those that vote i big corrupt government blame trump
dzimbeck https://bitbay.market/about/pegging/ BitBay Rolling Peg - BitBay Price volatility is cryptocurrency's biggest challenge - BitBay's rolling peg will reduce volatility by dynamically controlling supply. Learn more here.
dzimbeck Never blame Trump
dzimbeck blame military intelligence
dzimbeck and compartmentalization
Munti @codnose our site is going through a little redesign atm, but the info on the rolling peg will be back up soon
btcmacroecon new vorld odor! I blame "globalism"
imyb commented on Bitbay1’s file m2.jpg Is this really what it's going to look like?
dzimbeck :smile:
codnose Great thanks @Munti
Munti LOL, it was back up (edited)
dzimbeck well whatever powerful people do
dzimbeck it's our job to come up with solutions like unbreakable contracts
dzimbeck these contracts work in an anarchy
dzimbeck literally
dzimbeck The rolling peg is meant to allow low cap coins
dzimbeck to thrive
little_round @imyb No, it will be changed
dzimbeck because the control of supply lets us force the price
dzimbeck by voting on supply
yin damn your product sounds awesome! but you need a redesign of your website :smile:
dzimbeck so example
btcmacroecon so you in essence have a dashboard already active.
dzimbeck if a user has 1000 coins at 100% at .10 cents per coin
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dzimbeck and the network deflates to 50%
dzimbeck he would have 500 coins liquid and 500 frozen
Munti @btcmacroecon What do you mean by dashboard?
dzimbeck he can move the liquid coins as much as he wants
btcmacroecon you have a marketplace or dashboard like ebay has basically?
dzimbeck the frozen coins he can move but with a penalty a one month delay
Munti @btcmacroecon Yes (edited)
dzimbeck which makes a secondary market for trading frozen coins
codnose Like the eBay dashboard right @btcmacroecon ?
dzimbeck at a more speculative value
btcmacroecon you just need to expand on it with volume
Bitbay1 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hEpu8gZMzEcP22rMYX0Iw/videos YouTube BitBay Official BitBay youtube channel
dzimbeck we can assume his liquid coins would be worth about double than before if demand is about the same
btcmacroecon do you offer any affiliate programs to market for that volume?
dzimbeck Good idea
dzimbeck @btcmacroecon Working on that now
dzimbeck We have just started discussions about incentives
dzimbeck @kimchi please elaborate
dzimbeck return or refund on what?
kimchi I bought shoes. But what if a brick comes? There is an image on top that sells shoes.
dzimbeck Then seller would pay 100 dollars
dzimbeck if you blow it up
dzimbeck so negotiate a refund
dzimbeck the seller will most definitely reconsider
dzimbeck since he doesn't want to pay 100 dollars to be a joker
dzimbeck You can cancel contracts
dzimbeck returning all funds
Anoeng joined #trading_altcoins.
dzimbeck upon mutual consent
dzimbeck everything is consent
btcmacroecon does bitbay have the ability to accept payment in a variety of cryptocurrency? I think that's where volume could come in, or a gateway to exchange tokens and buyer / seller can arrive at payment and yet can be worked via bitbay smart contract or escrowing? could that work, is it possible, if not care to explore it?
dzimbeck the way a contract should be
dzimbeck Yes
codnose Ha that's awesome actually. Why would a seller send anything else knowing they'd lose their deposit ?
dzimbeck You can use Ark to pay
dzimbeck Bay is only used as a deposit
dzimbeck you might have to specify the coins you would accept in your contract
ulyssessyoungo nice
ulyssessyoungo i like that
btcmacroecon and what about dogecoin for example?
codnose Yeah that's cool
ulyssessyoungo Definitely adds to the viability of the platform
codnose Whatcoin? Lol
dzimbeck yeah codnose it forces honesty
dzimbeck and the same for employees
Munti @btcmacroecon Also, our platform is very broad. You can use it for almost anything. We already had all kinds of things sold there from pins to property. Many coins have also been sold there. Our market is like an improved localbitcoin. Binary opptions is also you can find on our marketoplace regularly. And I'm sure we havent even scrathced the surface yet. In the future we will have API's so ppl can tailor their own version of our marketplace.
dzimbeck if I hire someone using this system
btcmacroecon ok deposit only, making more sense now
ulyssessyoungo BAY as a currency would certainly take off best after the Rolling Peg
dzimbeck they better do what they say
ulyssessyoungo but in the meantime that's awesome that you can use other coins
dzimbeck I actually used to it motivate myself
Bitbay1 Why not sell Ark for Bay on the market :slightly_smiling_face:
Bitbay1 or Btc
dzimbeck had my friend blow up my money if I didn't do my daily errands
dzimbeck imagine having 10 grand deterrent
dzimbeck :smile:
bivins Greetings
dzimbeck You can trade coins on the market
dzimbeck especially microtrade
codnose You bought some land using this you said @Munti ?
dzimbeck but it is slow
dzimbeck for that I recommend atomic trade
dzimbeck It's not that fast paced trading that traders demand...
dzimbeck but
codnose No worries about losing any money ? I take it it wasn't just a few dollars
dzimbeck Someone did sell IOTA on our platform
dzimbeck and did lots of deals
Bitbay1 yes before IOTA came into the exchanges
Munti @codnose Yes I did. Got the paperwork in the mail today. 5 acres of land in California. (And I live in Norway) (edited)
prasanth can we stake coins in the market client??
Munti Yes
dzimbeck Staking is done using 2 keys
dzimbeck so you can actually stake over LAN too
tranzer Could BitBay somehow bridge with Ark and offer their services to Ark users?
dzimbeck using 2 computers
dzimbeck it's called "cold staking"
dzimbeck no hacking is possible here
dzimbeck ever
dzimbeck you can hide keys in images
btcmacroecon ok i admit failure on setting up CoinURL as I tried to set up online store, to sell some code, my wildlife photography, and rocks and gems I prospect, I'd like to set up BitBay on an Iframe into my site, and capture affiliate biz. Sounds like this is almost possible, and I could sell my jade right through my site, at least offer it up, right?
dzimbeck and have dual passwords and use 2 computers to sign transactions automated
Munti @tranzer We would have to look into that. But I don't see any reason why we could not.
dzimbeck We need a web wallet
dzimbeck that is our biggest challenge
dzimbeck since I made this with a "security first" attitude
dzimbeck being a cryptographer (edited)
dzimbeck I forgot the reason to make everything web based
Munti @btcmacroecon We are not quite there yet, but yes, that's where we're going
dzimbeck Didn't want to sacrifice security
dzimbeck now I realize there is a need for web based platforms
codnose I follow you on twitter and saw that mentioned the other day. It's coming soon? @dzimbeck
dzimbeck that sacrifice a little security for speed and ease of use in phones
dzimbeck A web wallet?
codnose Yeah
dzimbeck Yeah well we will have a basic web wallet very soon
dzimbeck its actually a very nice one (edited)
dzimbeck But I was referring to a market wallet
dzimbeck one with the full contract implementation
dzimbeck we hope to do that after the peg is successful
Munti Keep an eye on our next weekly update (sunday) for roadmap for the rest of this year. You will get details there
dzimbeck since it's more important to deliver on what I promise
dzimbeck than to make up new features
dzimbeck aka "scope creep" a programmers worst enemy
mergatroid Hello
dzimbeck Hi
mergatroid Please comment on recent news around SEC delistings on bittrex - what steps are you taking to communicate with user base as to whether your a security and what you plan to do if you are classified as such
dzimbeck The rolling peg is the priority
dzimbeck Since Tether is unreliable
dzimbeck this is a decentralized peg
dzimbeck that isn't fixed at a certain price
dzimbeck so it can "roll" the price up
codnose Sounds like you have a lot of nice things planned :)
dzimbeck so it starts at say 5 cents
dzimbeck and slowly rolls up to 10 cents
dzimbeck over X amount of time
dzimbeck after that we would love to focus on web implementations
dzimbeck however anyone who wants to plug this into their site should contact us, we can set up some API calls for sure
Munti @mergatroid I just became aware of the SEC issue on Bittrex today, and have not had time to study it. But going by the little I did read, it doesn't seem to be a problem for us.
mergatroid Ok - so no plan so far understand
dzimbeck we aren't a security
dzimbeck because we don't pay dividends
mergatroid Thankyou
codnose Just on your website now @dzimbeck @Munti
dr10 OK we are approaching 1 hour mark. If you guys have any questions left, go ahead. Anything bitbay.market team would like to add or tell - feel free to do.
V01D Thanks for your time bitbay team
dzimbeck Thanks for doing this! It was fun. And maybe I have a few questions about Ark later
dzimbeck :slightly_smiling_face:
codnose Looking good. Thanks for stopping by :)
dzimbeck Any other questions?
dzimbeck Perhaps regarding the peg, contracts or markets?
Boris Is dzimbeck a god?
dzimbeck :smile:
dzimbeck no
dzimbeck I bleed
codnose Haha I'd heard that too
codnose At least in coding terms lol
dr10 Thank you David and Bjørn for taking the time to do this AMA! All the best with the project and you are always welcome to hang around our Slack
Munti If anyone wants more info, you are welcome to our slack http://bitbay.market/wp-login.php?action=slack-invitation
dzimbeck Honestly a little bit of effort is all these things take
dzimbeck Thanks dr10
Munti Thanks for having us. This was fun
submitted by Dr10tv to ArkEcosystem [link] [comments]

What the NSA really thinks of Tor

This NSA Top Secret document includes an official declaration by the NSA about whether Tor protects Tor users and keeps Tor users anonymous. A URL at the bottom of this post leads to a true copy in the Guardian of the NSA document, which is from the Snowden archives.
Excerpt of text in NSA document, pages 1 and 2:
TOP SECRET//COMINT//REL FVEY
Stinks
CT SIGDEV
JUN 2012
Declassify On: 20370101
TOP SECRET//COMINT//REL FVEY
TOP SECRET//COMINT//REL FVEY
Tor Stinks...(u)
We will never be able to de-anonymize all Tor users all the time. With manual analysis we can de-anonymize a very small fraction of Tor users, however, no success de-anonymizing a user in response to a TOPI request/on demand.
TOP SECRET//COMINT//REL FVEY
On 4 Nov 2013, a Guardian article included a report on the increasing use of Tor after NSA whistle blower Edward Snowden revealed NSA Top Secret documents in June 2013: "What is Tor? A beginner's guide to the privacy tool"
According to the Tor Project's own figures, between 19 August and 27 August alone, which was about 2 months after Snowden's revelations, the number of people using Tor more than doubled to 2.25 million before peaking at nearly 6 million in mid-September. It has since slipped back to just over 4 million.
Since June 2013, how many people have learned for the first time about Tor and Tails, especially since the acclaimed documentary film Citizenfour received an Academy Award on 22 February 2015. At the end of the film, which stars Edward Snowden and others, the film credits acknowledge that Tor and Tails played a role in making the film possible.
How many people use Tor today. 4 million? 10 million? 50 million? 100 million? More? Less? Who knows? Whatever the number, the NSA does not like the fact that people outside of the intelligence community use Tor in the United States and other countries around the world.
On March 12, 2013, the United States Congress Senate Select Committee on Intelligence convened a public hearing. Cable television covered the live hearing. Senator Ron Wyden was present at the hearing as a member of the committee, which had summoned United States Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to answer questions and give official testimony before Congress about whether the United States government was spying on millions of people in the United States. Senator Wyden asked Director Clapper the following question: "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Clapper lied and said “No...”
This lie by one of the top ranking officials in the United States intelligence community begs the following questions:
Would the NSA disseminate misleading or false information on the Internet to discourage the public from using Tor? Would the NSA disseminate misleading or false information that states the public should not use Tor because it is dangerous to use Tor, and Tor is not effective? Would someone working for the NSA post misleading or false information about Tor and Tails on the Reddit web site or other sites to discourage the public from using Tor?
On Oct 2, 2013, the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation made the high-profile arrest of Ross William Ulbricht, who was the founder and operator of the Silk Road web site. That same month, the Federal Bureau of Investigation shut down the web site. About 2 years 8 months before Ulbricht's arrest, Ulbricht launched the Silk Road site in February 2011. The Silk Road site was a criminal enterprise where many types of illegal drugs, many other illegal items, and many illegal services were available for purchase.
Ulbricht was a Tor user, and his Silk Road web site was a Tor Hidden Service, which means that the web site was available only on the Tor Network. The Silk Road site was not in any Internet search engine index. Ulbricht used Tor to engage in most or all of his illegal transactions, and his Silk Road site used Tor for all transactions.
In the summer of 2013, the Silk Road web site had 957,000 registered user accounts. During the period that the Silk Road was online, the total value of the purchases on the site amounted to USD $1.2 billion. Ulbricht's commissions on those transactions amounted to USD $80 million. All transactions were in Bitcoin.
The pursuit, tracking, and identification of Ulbricht involved the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation, the United States Drug Enforcement Administration, the United States Internal Revenue Service, and the United States Homeland Security Investigations agency. Those government departments and agencies might have expended up to tens or hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of thousands of man hours or more to track and eventually identify Ulbricht and his location. The successful tracking, identification, and location of Ulbricht by the United States government was not due to any technical or system vulnerabilities in Tor.
After expending immense resources and capital over an extended period, the United States government eventually was able to identify Ulbricht's real name and location because Ulbricht foolishly posted his email address: rossulbricht[at]gmail.com and the name Silk Road in a bitcointalk.org public forum where the whole world, including the FBI, could read Ulbricht's Gmail address next to the Silk Road name.
The FBI went to Google, and Google gave information from Ulbricht's Gmail account and information from his Google+ account to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. That account information included Ulbricht's home address. No weakness in Tor brought down Ross William Ulbricht. He brought himself down by revealing his real identity on a popular web site forum.
During Ulbricht's trial in a Manhattan, New York federal court, prosecutors alleged that Ulbricht paid $730,000 to other people to have them murder six people. No one actually murdered any of Ulbricht's intended victims. Ultimately, the government did not prosecute Ulbricht for any of the alleged murders. Some of the information that the government investigation uncovered showed that Ulbricht paid one person USD $150,000 to kill a person who was attempting to blackmail Ulbricht. The blackmailer told Ulbricht that he would reveal online the names and addresses of thousands of Silk Road's biggest customers and vendors unless Ulbricht paid him USD $500,000. The government found no evidence that Ulbricht's hired killer actually killed anyone. On the surface, it appears that the blackmailer and the hired-killer might be the same person, and the person scammed Ulbricht out of USD $150,000.
On May 29, 2015, a federal court in Manhattan, New York, handed Ulbricht five sentences, including two sentences for life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. The court also ordered that Ulbricht forfeit USD $183,000,000. Ulbricht is now serving his sentences. As of June 2015, Ulbricht is under incarceration at Metropolitan Detention Center, Brooklyn, New York.
The point of this post is not to celebrate Ulbricht or his criminal activities. The point is to illustrate that although the United States government expended huge amounts of resources and capital to track and eventually identify Ulbricht and his location, his capture had nothing to do with any weakness in Tor.
If a Tor or Tails user, such as a political dissident living under an oppressive regime, a government whistle blower, or any law abiding person, knows how to use Tor and Tails correctly and avoids making mistakes that reveal his or her name and location, that person and his or her location are likely to remain anonymous and unknown to any cyber spies, web information brokers, or cyber trackers.
Maybe all Internet users who value their right to privacy, right to anonymity, and right to be free from cyber tracking should use Tor and/or Tails. Maybe we should not be obedient, should not give up our right to privacy, should not give up our right to be anonymous, and should not submit to life under a surveillance police state. People under the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and North Korea submitted. Look what happened to them.
– LINKS --
4 Oct 2013, The Guardian "'Tor Stinks' presentation - read the full document": www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document
5 Nov 2013 The Guardian "What is Tor? A beginner's guide to the privacy tool" www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/05/tor-beginners-guide-nsa-browser
Wikipedia, James R. Clapper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper
Wikipedia, Silk Road: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road_%28marketplace%29#Arrest_and_trial_of_Ross_William_Ulbricht
Wikipedia, Ross William Ulbricht: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_William_Ulbricht
Beginning on Page 24, this Sealed Complaint has a detailed description of each of Ulbricht's personal mistakes and blunders that enabled the United States government to track, identify, and locate Ulbricht due to the fact that he revealed his real identity on a popular web site forum and made other unnecessary and avoidable mistakes and blunders. This court document is on the Columbia University web site.
Sealed Complaint United States Magistrate Judge Southern District of New York United States v. Ross William Ulbricht: www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf
submitted by smoothgravity to privacy [link] [comments]

Agora Black Market URL / Agora Drugs Marketplace Tor .onion URL

If you already know how to navigate in the darknet and are just in search for a link to register for Agora Marketplace, well, here you go:
Working Agora Market Referral / Registration / Invite Link:
http://agorahooawayyfoe.onion/registeVDMqSw9RWP
For the rest of you all: FYI Agora is by now the biggest darknet/deepweb market after the recent proplems of Silk Road and SR2. You can buy and sell ANYTHING from drugs, guns and counterfeits to electronics, jewelry, clothes and forgeries! (NOTE: Obviously some items sold there might be Illegal in your country. We are not responsible for your actions, it is your duty to inform yourself and take your own security seriously! We don't support any illegal actions, this subreddit is for information purpose only) In order to signup/register for The Agora Market you will need to first download the TOR browser, this is to keep you 100% anonymous and safe (the site will NOT load in your regular browser, it will only appear in TOR so this is the first step: https://www.torproject.org/ ). Once you have opened your TOR browser copy and paste this referral link (you can click it but it is recommend always getting in the habit of copy+paste to avoid phishing and know exactly where you're going) into your TOR browser to get registered on The Agora Market and start browsing:
http://agorahooawayyfoe.onion/registeVDMqSw9RWP
So stay safe and take care, guys!
agora market invite, agora registration, agora marketplace signup link, agora market link, register to agora market, agora referral link, registration link, invite link, darknet, deepweb, tor, browser, market, onion, hidden, dark net, drugs, bitcoin, reddit, new, url, buy, browse, access, login, anonymous, silk road, login, reddit, link, black market, tor link, forum, onion, drug, silk road, weed, ecstasy, website, bmr, black market reloaded, underground, list, dark web, black market onion sign up, agora market, refferal, site
More links & info here: http://www.reddit.com/AgoraReferralLink/
Links are still valid in 2015.
submitted by ionel123 to AgoraReferral [link] [comments]

Silk Road explained Bitcoin crime Gangster Report Al Profit Bitcoin: As told in the Deep Web Movie (2015) Ross Ulbricht, Silk Road Trial, Mark Karpelès, Dread Pirate Roberts. Deep Web -- The Silk Road Server  EPIX Alex Winter on

Die beschlagnahmten Bitcoin wurden bereits 2015 von der US-Regierung versteigert. Shaun Bridges wurde im November 2017 verhaftet. Sein Kollege Carl Force, ein ehemaliger DEA-Agent, wurde wegen Erpressung, Geldwäsche und Strafvereitelung sowie dem Diebstahl von Bitcoin verurteilt. Force war als Undercover-Agent in den Ermittlungen tätig und sollte die Identität Ulbrichts aufdecken. Später ... Eine Bitcoin-Wallet kann viel sicherer als ein Bankkonto sein. Zyprer haben das auf die harte Tour gelernt, als deren Ersparnisse Anfang 2013 beschlagnahmt wurden. Dieses Ereignis war Berichten zufolge der Verursacher eines Preisanstiegs, da Sparer die relativen Risiken von Banken gegenüber Bitcoin überdacht haben.. Der nächste fallende Dominostein war Griechenland, wo 2015 strenge ... Here are some significant events leading up to the Silk Road founder’s conviction. http://silkroaddrugs.org/significant-facts-in-the-life-of-dread-pirate-roberts/ According to testimony from former FBI agent Ilhwan Yum on Thursday, more than 3,760 bitcoin transactions were traced directly from Silk Road servers to Ross Ulbricht over the course of 12 months ending in August 2013, Wired reported. The digital currency was used to make illegal drug transactions on the underground website, which the government says was created and run by Ulbricht. Grafico dei Bitcoin del 2015 di Tyler Durden di Zero Hedge. Un'attuale influenzatore positivo del prezzo dei Bitcoin, o quanto meno questa è la percezione, è la situazione ">argentina. Il nuovo presidente dell'Argentina, Mauricio Macri, si è impegnato a controllare il capitale finale. Ciò potrebbe eliminare l'ampia disparità tra i tassi di cambio ufficiali e quelli del mercato nero del ...

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Silk Road explained Bitcoin crime Gangster Report Al Profit

Meeting the Founder of Silk Road ( Ross Ulbricht ) My First Million Podcast - Duration: 3 ... 2015: Marketwatch - Bitcoin Crashes into the New Year - Duration: 2:30. Money & Tech 574 views. 2:30 ... Ross Ulbricht is being prosecuted by federal authorities for allegedly being the operator the bitcoin marketplace "Silk Road" under the internet handle "Dread Pirate Roberts" (a borrowing for the ... Published on Jun 1, 2015 How did the prosecution find the Silk Road Server? That's the question on everyone's minds in this exclusive clip from EPIX Original Documentary, Deep Web, premiering May ... A brief explanation of what Bitcoin is in the Alex Winter documentary The Deep Web, narrated by Keanu Reeves. The Deep Web is a film about Ross Ulbricht, Silk Road, and Bitcoin. The film explores ... Filmmaker Alex Winter talks about his new film "Deep Web: The Untold Story of Bitcoin and The Silk Road," that premieres on May 31, 2015 on EPIX. We caught up with him at this year's San Francisco ...

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